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Star Wars Discussion [Warning Spoilers]

edited December 2017 in General

I want to start this thread to discuss new Star Wars (Last Jedi). Overall, I'm always greatful for more Star Wars. I believe its one of the best franchises and stories ever!

However...

This movie was probably one of the worst Star Wars movies ever made (second to Phantom Menace, only because of Gungans and Jar). Feel free to argue against me, I would love to be persuaded differently.

Let me list my grievances:

  1. Space Leia, WTF was that. The actress is dead, and they had a moment to kill her off in the movie. But somehow the force awakens (no pun intended) inside her as she floats in space and flies back to the ship.
  2. The entire Fin/Rose story arc with the slicer. It was absolutely pointless. This is because they surprised "Deus ex Machinma" a new plan with a planet they just magically ended up beside. The slicer was a pointless character.
  3. Rose saving Fin from suicide-crashing into the giant First Order cannon. Was an awkward scene ending in a silly kiss. Then you think she is dead, but no she is really alive and Fin drags her body back across a salt flat infront of the enemy through the front door (at the time only way in and out).
  4. The entire premise of the last battle was silly, how they were trapped. But wait, there are tunnels that lead to the trenches.
  5. The astral projection of Luke was weak. I guess they need a way for him to get there in time. You know they did that in the original movies, it was called jumping to light speed. Not to mention, they could have had a scene where he raises his X-wing from the water (which they show in the shallow water in the movie). It feels like a lost moment.
  6. The "rich gambling world" (forgot the name) was strange. They used the time to push the "war is bad" and attempted shallow character development with Rose (yet another character). The Rose character was weak in my opinion, and they should have spent more time just with Fin doing his thing.
  7. The slicer, Benicio Del Toro, could have been interesting, but it seemed very strange how he was magically in the same prison cell. Then he comes off as a self-centered guy with a good heart, but turns them in at the end. Why even introduce us to that character?
  8. Captain Phasma, this was a huge let down. I thought she would have had more story time. They could have used that character, developed it more along with Fin. But no, they killed her off, very Boba Fet and the Sarlac pit-like.
  9. WTF is with Snope? They played this character up as a new emperor then kill him off like nothing. I'm very mixed about this scene as it felt like it should have been the climax of the movie.
  10. The purple hair lady was ridiculous. The entire story line to show that Poe Dameron is too hot headed and doesn't know what he is doing, was off, and in my opinion anti-star wars. They did a great job in the last movie introducing us to the character, only switching the story line on us towards the end.
  11. Princess Leia, stunning Poe...WTF...that all seemed off to me.

Things I liked:

  1. The cinematography was great. The spaceships and effects were topnotch.
  2. I loved all the scenes with the Rey and Luke.
  3. I loved the discussion between Rey and Kylo. I can overlook Kylo Ren's character flaws of being a whinny bitch. I thought the tension between the two characters was done well.
  4. While I didn't care for the astral projection of Luke, his death scene was great, and a great way to end that character cinematically.
  5. I loved the Yoda/Luke scene. I thought it was a great way to tie the story back in with episode 5/6.
  6. I liked the Rey/Kylo battle scene with Snope's guards. I would have thought the two jedi were more powerful, and the scene could have used more "force" usage, but overall it should have been the apex of the movie (maybe it was...)

In summary: I wish I could have heard the discussions going on in the writer's room when they were drafting this script. There are so many times when it feels like things were bolted on. Throwing extra characters into the mix was a bad decision in my opinion. The introduction of Rose, Slicer, the purple hair lady, all seemed pointless. I have read that this movie wasn't made for the old Star Wars fans (you know the old, white, geeky males), it wasn't suppose to be the next Empire Strikes Back, and was designed for the newer generation. I think more Star Wars the better, but that seems to be an excuse for poor story structure. I don't need another Empire Strikes Back-clone, and I don't care what the characters look like (its a fantasy universe, so why not be more inclusive, the more fans the merry), but if the story doesn't make sense, and you fill a 2.5 hour movie with filler scenes that drag on, dropping deus ex machina plot points all over the place, you break my heart.

Feel free to rage against me.

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Comments

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    First of all, Boba Fett didn't die. Know your Expanded Universe lore. GOSH. (Yeah, yeah, none of that shit is canon now that Disney is charge, but I stopped caring about the 'official' cannon when they scrapped the Republic Commando lore.)

    Second of all, I feel obligated to note that I probably count as part of that 'newer generation' that the movie is targeted towards, so the following is probably a little biased.

    I would argue that perhaps the whole Slicer arc was meant to feel pointless. The pointlessness of it all, and the consequences of it only making the situation worse for rebels helped to point out that perhaps plans of heroic daring do against impossible odds aren't always the wisest choices to make. As for the Slicer himself, I doubt this is the last we are going to see of him, and he brings up an interesting moral conundrum in that he isn't malignent, per se, only entirely self-interested. A true chaotic neutral character if there ever was one.

    That being said, I do agree that the whole Rose saving Fin scene was a little cheesy, and I couldn't help but cringe at the whole 'save what you love' line. What is this, a parable? It felt entirely too heavy-handed and forced. I'm watching Star Wars, not Aesop's Fables.

    Also, that whole ramming speed scene had me drooling. How they handled the cinematography for that was top-notch. I also found myself surprised that I was able to overlook how much of a whiny bitch Kylo Ren is.

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    I do like that they failed with the whole slicer arc.
    It felt like in A New Hope when they're trying to sneak on board and shut off the tractor beam, but without the success.

    While the whole space battle, light-speed, ramming thing was really pretty, I hate that it happened. So what, anyone can slam into anything (death star, star-killer base, super star destroyer, etc) at light speed and just get it done?

    I bet Phasma will be back, and they have to do something else with Snoke, we know nothing but his name. Wasn't Maul able to survive with a cyborg bottom half before?

    Rose should have died just like her sister. There I said it.

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    edited December 2017

    I'll bite. I think i've reconciled most of my immediate gripes with the movie. After a bit of time and separation and attempting to look at things with the long game in view I've accepted that they did a lot of necessary things in this movie that should pay off well over the span of a trilogy or over the full body of all 9 in the series. I'm left with two lists now, opinions I have changed and outstanding issues.

    Things i'm now okay with.

    1. Space Leia. I was immediately bothered here by the sheer ridiculousness. However, in the end this scene ultimately had little bearing on any main story arc. As such I would have preferred that it was left out entirely or that it was done a different way, but now it'll simply be just another example of a ridiculous and cheesy scene in a Star Wars film. It likely will not be the last.

    2. Snokes death. Like everybody else I was initially pretty disappointed by Snokes early demise because I didn't feel we got the fan service of finding out about his background nor did we receive a display of his clearly immense power. With that said I have come to agree with Rian Johnsons take on direction. Getting Snoke out of the way opens the door up to incredible character development and growth from the main antagonist Kylo Ren. It's difficult to develop Rens character beyond the petulant and often times whiny child that Ren appears to be when he's relegated to the role of underling. Vader had the same development problem in the original trilogy. Right when we were starting to see glimpses of Vaders power and the fear he instilled in others the Emporer suddenly appeared to take a larger role in the movies and revealed Vader to be nothing more than another soldier following orders from his superior. He was never allowed to grow in to the role of the penultimate villain. We may now see a VERY different Kylo Ren in the upcoming finale movie, one who is no longer bound to allegiance to anybody but himself.

    3. Hermit Luke. I've only PARTIALLY come around on this one. I actually don't mind the idea that the most positive guy in the galaxy has lost his faith and secluded himself from everything. Every man has his breaking point, Jedi or not. I just wish they could have made some minor tweaks here to make it seem less gross and weird. It also would have been nice to see a Luke who, while broken and disheartened, was a little more like himself than he was. The moments of levity they chose to go with here came off as the gross and weird stuff I disliked and simply didn't remind me at all of the Luke Skywalker we've always known.

    Things I still dislike.

    1. Light speed ship kamikaze. This strategy simply invalidates too many epic space battles for me get over it. Who knew that in a galaxy of super advanced technology that the most dangerous weapon anyone could conceive is the ability to simply hurtle an object at light speed toward another object? I mean shit, with that type of strategy why develop a death star at all?

    2. The socio political subplots of the second act, during the Canto Blight mission. Just when you think they've learned their lesson from the prequels about cramming mundane political garbage in to Star Wars movies, here comes an entire act of the movie that does little beyond preaching to us about the ethical treatment of animals, the evils of war profiteering, and misuse of child labor. Stick to the failed mission and the character development efforts of Finn and Rose, but save me from the preachy BS.

    3. Too many "cute creature moments." I get it, they want to sell stuff, but there is a hard line that needs to be held when these merchandising setups are planted in to these movies. There is no greater way to ruin the chemistry between a couple of actors having an important and impactful moment in the film than to constantly interrupt them with some wonky plush doll doing something cute for no meaningful reason.

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    @Smashapotamus you are a good man, sir.

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    So many missed opportunities and plot holes in this movie.. The way they killed off Admiral Ackbar was such a waste.. He should have been the one to ram the ship into the first order, not Holdo..

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    I wholeheartedly aggree with Prae, I feel like the directors had ulterior motives that superseded their love of the Star Wars story. I won't explain those motives as it'd be close to violating standard FoE rules.

    All in all, it was the most disappointing movie I've seen in quite some time.

    Cocoa was amazing.

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    edited February 14

    Agree with a lot of these points. This video sums up a lot of things we like changed in this movie.

    My biggest beef was not letting the movie be star wars instead of adding in SJW and political themes in this film.

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    To add specific things I disliked about this film.

    The casino scene and SJW moment: Far too long. The entire scene and plot point could have been removed from the movie overall. The sidetrack of the mission by making political points on war profiteering, child slavery, and animal abuse was so not Star Wars.

    Purple Hair moron: One of the biggest plot holes was after the leadership is killed and Lea in intensive care we have purple hair bimbo in charge of the resistance. She had a plan all along but refuses to share it with anyone. Why? Spies? We never got an explanation but instead continued to showcase poor leadership that leads to a mutiny that causes this sidetrack mission to the casino, to begin with. If the story involved she lead them to doom because she herself is a First Order spy that would have been a far more interesting plot turn and make sense of all the mishaps she caused.

    Rose: Character is so weak it would have been best to remove her character altogether. The final battle knocking over Finn was very disappointing and would have been a worthy death for that character only to be shattered by a moment so lame.

    Captain Phasma: We were told she would get more screen time this film. Her small role was more of a let down in my book.

    Things I liked:

    The cinematography was excellent. Again unlike the prequels the balance of CGI and practical effects is evident here just like the Force Awakens.

    General numbnuts: I felt this guy was a complete moron in TFA but glad to see the film plot acknowledges this when Snoke comments on his lack of an IQ placing his purpose. After all, this actor is the same one that allowed himself to get seduced by a droid in Ex Machina. He provided a lot of the comedy in the film. Kylo force pushing him in the shuttle was a good chuckle.

    Training with Rey and Luke: Was a nice point in the film and produced some nice comic moments, except for Luke wanting his milk. That could have been cut.

    Snokes Death: This changes the story where we don't focus him as the main villain but instead see Kylo no longer be restraint as the whinny force student. Now we get a chance to see this character grow that Vadar was not allowed originally. I have no idea where the story will go and I find this refreshing. After all, it is very Sith like to kill your master and take his place. We finally get to see this on film.

    Yoda and Luke moment: A joy to see and the fact they used the same puppet from ESB for this film came off so natural versus being lazy with a CGI version.

    The setup of the Gray: The story arc for Kylo and Rey shows a possible link that eventually Rey will not be a full Jedi as that is being done with but a new order that embraces the light and dark, hence the gray Jedi or the balance. This seems to be the center of the theme for this trilogy. The quotes from Yodi seems to confirm this.

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